CTKArch

I found this distro looking for information on how to make configure xorg on a livecd to get the right video drivers. I'd like to discuss with other people who make livecds based on archlinux as a good chunk of the arch linux community thinks this is bad for some reason.(what you don't have a hard disk?)

So I'd figure I'd download your iso and give it a whirl.(no pun intended).

I have a slightly different vision of what I want on my cd with a slightly different packing list. I am very intrested to hear how you guys managed to auto-video-driver selected with X. I can't seem to get it.

edit: I've been playing around with CTK for a minute now, and I must say this is the sharpest looking livecd I've seen to date, but definately slightly diffrent packing list.

1/ Why would it be bad doing an Archlinux-based liveCD? I don't understand the point, could you be more precise?

2/ In your opinion, are some apps in CTKArch useless?
Then, of course, everyone sees a lack of his favourite applications in this liveCD, but as I said in the main page of ctkarch.org :

Quote: http://ctkarch.org/

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CTKArch includes a powerful add-on system, and support for a partition of persistent data, that allow to easily add customized applications to the live system, leaving the base ISO free of software some people may not appreciate.

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I hope you understand that choice. And I hope that you've tried to make some add-ons!

The audio/video drivers working out of the box? It's automated for ALSA since... I can't remember, and it's automated in Xorg since sept. 2009.
I have almost nothing to do, apart from configuring Nouveau on nvidia cards (see /etc/rc.local in the liveCD, or in the sources that are available on the download page)
And for sound, I just raise the volumes in rc.local too.
Nothing else.

I'm craving to know what you think, for my questions 1/ and 2/ !

Quote: Calimero at Feb 13, 2011 12:42:37 pm

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1/ Why would it be bad doing an Archlinux-based liveCD? I don't understand the point, could you be more precise?

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its not bad, just hard, and most arch users probably don't like the idea.

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2/ In your opinion, are some apps in CTKArch useless?

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not really, just mabey a little outta place, like brasero.

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Then, of course, everyone sees a lack of his favourite applications in this liveCD, but as I said in the main page of ctkarch.org :

Quote: http://ctkarch.org/

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CTKArch includes a powerful add-on system, and support for a partition of persistent data, that allow to easily add customized applications to the live system, leaving the base ISO free of software some people may not appreciate.

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I hope you understand that choice. And I hope that you've tried to make some add-ons!

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that doesn't solve my problems though. My vision for what I want on a livecd is a little different. Hence why I am making my own. I came here to ask for help from someone else who made a livecd from arch.

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The audio/video drivers working out of the box? It's automated for ALSA since... I can't remember, and it's automated in Xorg since sept. 2009.
I have almost nothing to do, apart from configuring Nouveau on nvidia cards (see /etc/rc.local in the liveCD, or in the sources that are available on the download page)
And for sound, I just raise the volumes in rc.local too.
Nothing else.

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I got it now, I took some code out of your rc.local and it now works. you are credited in the comments. With CTK, all my audio and video worked out of the box. xorg was having trouble recognizing video cards, and would give "no screens found", and then fail.

Only beef: wireless drivers. I don't know if you've included them, or not, but I needs them:
http://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/any/ipw2200-fw/
http://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/any/ipw2100-fw/

Now, I am making a "media tools distribution":
Centering around openshot, audacity, and gimp. uses XFCE, and network manager instead of wicd(adds plug and play 3g modem support).

I initially used LXDE(like you), but opted for XFCE when I couldn't figure out automount permissions with the udev/hal/polkit/fuse clusterfuck, and XFCE is more mature.

Come on, it's not hard to make an Archlinux live-cd! It's just that you must spend the time needed on every single feature.
Yes, that's thankless, but that's how you get something stable.

What do you mean, “out of place”, for brasero? I didn't catch your point…

Why don't add-ons solve your problem??
They allow to add whatever you want (packages, config, scripts...) to the live system.
You can even put them INSIDE the ISO image before burning it! Just as if I had included your add-on in the release!!
You can share the modified iso, and so forth!

You're welcome with your live-cd, I enjoy having co-livecd-makers and sharing info.
I dont understand what you mean by “my vision for what I want on a livecd is a little different”: on ctkarch you can make an add-on with openshot, audacity, and network manager if you want. Then put it inside the ISO and share this ISO.
I hope I'm not discouraging you in making your livecd stating that!

I've made an add-on with ipw2100-fw inside it, that's wifi-blobs. In that add-on you have support for almost all wireless cards.
Just use it! It was released along with v0.6.

Most people don't want to know about add-ons and persist to say "put it in the base iso".
The answer is NO. It's not free software. Sorry, there is a boundary there. Not FOSS ⇒ not in the base iso.
Did you know that it's illegal to include the Broadcom wireless drivers in your iso?

About consolekit session permissions, hang on, I will soon post a fix on the site, that you could use to start a minimal WM session.

Finally: I don't use LXDE! I've never used it!
If you want a name for the small openbox+fbpanel X session in ctkarch, it's C2DE.

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Why would it be bad doing an Archlinux-based liveCD? I don't understand the point, could you be more precise?
its not bad, just hard, and most arch users probably don't like the idea.

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I understand your point exactly.  If you go to the Arch forum, many posters (especailly the moderators) seem to frown on any method that deviates from their narrow notion of the way things should be.

Once, I gave a newbie a direct answer to his question (instead of responding with RTFM), and 'I got a condescending remark from one of the mods.  This was in the "newbie" section of the forum!

Furthermore, when I suggested that sometimes one can update the repository database and then install some packages without a system upgrade, I got a scolding.

Also, I got a decidedly cold reception when I mentioned that I was able to quickly install a minimal version Arch using the CTK liveCD.

It's a very stifling environment over there.  I am very glad that this forum is more helpful and less stuffy!

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Now, I am making a "media tools distribution":  Centering around openshot, audacity, and gimp. uses XFCE, and network manager instead of wicd(adds plug and play 3g modem support).

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That sounds great!  Please keep us posted on your progress.

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I initially used LXDE(like you), but opted for XFCE when I couldn't figure out automount permissions with the udev/hal/polkit/fuse clusterfuck, and XFCE is more mature.

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I must confess that I am not crazy about XFCE.  I would choose a window manager that demands fewer resources, so that I could utilize more CPU cycles and memory for editing/rendering in Open Shot.  By the way, I plan to attend the Open Shot seminar at SCALE next week.

Also, there are lots of ways to automount.  As I recall, the old Dynebolic media liveCD mounted everything that was connected on boot (whether you wanted something mounted or not).  It might be helpful in general to take a look at how Dynebolic did things.  I seem to remember that installing it was as simple as dragging a couple of directories onto the HD (and making the necessary config changes in the boot loader).

Personally, I could live without automount.

Also, you should be aware that one of the great things about CTK is that it lacks HAL, so it has significantly less of a "clusterf**k!"

Looking forward to trying your liveCD!

The problem with making liveCDs is that, the easiest it becomes, the crappiest result you might obtain.
Some people don't work cleanly, and I totally agree with the ones who say it's not good to make a lot of liveCDs with unclear goals and bugged scripts.

I'm trying to work properly and to do extensive testing. Besides, I have a very clear goal.
On the bbs, I was never told anything such as what you mentioned.

Then, again, I agree: using pacman -Sy package is BAD. It can break things pretty easily (version mismatches).
You can only do this with a frozen repo, such as what I configured by default in ctkarch.

I can perfectly understand that people are cautious before saying okay, it's good to make your base install with ctkarch.
It's maybe the only livecd that does a "clean" install, that is, some config adjustments in /etc and /home/user and a list of packages.
I hate mess, such as files in /usr/bin not belonging to any package… *sigh*

If the livecd makers can hear me: think of what bugs could happen when people will pacman -Syu after installing your livecd!
At each version of ctkarch, I experience problems of this kind. v1.0 won't be released until they are all solved.

In short, be consistent, be responsible, be clear, and no one will (can) say anything frustrating.

Remark about "automount": it's not very clear what that means.
I chose to mount nothing autmatically (without asking) at bootup. I don't think this is a good idea at all.
Then, you can mount and browse any partition with a single click in pcmanfm (file manager).
And yep, no need of HAL for this. Consolekit allows to directly launch mount with udisks.
I've said that (and more) in the Philosophy page.